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	<title>Comments on: Certification Shmertification</title>
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	<link>http://emergentchaos.com/archives/2006/10/certification-shmertification.html</link>
	<description>The Emergent Chaos Jazz Combo</description>
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		<title>By: Peter</title>
		<link>http://emergentchaos.com/archives/2006/10/certification-shmertification.html/comment-page-1#comment-2751</link>
		<dc:creator>Peter</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 14 Oct 2006 13:03:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://emergentchaos.com/?p=2006#comment-2751</guid>
		<description>I&#039;ve been an MCSD since 2000, and it really hasn&#039;t made a difference getting jobs, and only helps out when the company is looking to get/keep their MS Partner program benefits.
My current employer is bidding on a huge government RFP, and some of the key security staff will have to have CISSP among other certs.
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		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;ve been an MCSD since 2000, and it really hasn&#8217;t made a difference getting jobs, and only helps out when the company is looking to get/keep their MS Partner program benefits.<br />
My current employer is bidding on a huge government RFP, and some of the key security staff will have to have CISSP among other certs.</p>
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		<title>By: Arthur</title>
		<link>http://emergentchaos.com/archives/2006/10/certification-shmertification.html/comment-page-1#comment-2750</link>
		<dc:creator>Arthur</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 14 Oct 2006 08:14:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://emergentchaos.com/?p=2006#comment-2750</guid>
		<description>Alexandre,
As Lazarus points out, the answer is almost always money. The sad thing is that SANS/GIAC had a certification that required a written practical exam. Unfortunately, they &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.giac.org/practicals/termination.php&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;got rid of that requirement&lt;/a&gt;, austensibly for flexibility, but I suspect people were complaining that it was too hard given the 80% failure rate, GIAC was seeing. &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.securityfocus.com/columnists/311&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Don Parker&lt;/a&gt; and &lt;a href=&quot;http://taosecurity.blogspot.com/2005/03/sans-ends-practical-requirement-for.html&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Richard Bejtlich&lt;/a&gt; in particular were unamused at this change. See &lt;a href=&quot;http://certcities.com/editorial/news/story.asp?EditorialsID=809&amp;page=2&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;CertCities&lt;/a&gt; for their interview with the Peter Northcutt for the marketing aspects. Speaking of marketing, for a good laugh read GIAC&#039;s &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.giac.org/certified/certmatters/&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Does Certification Matter?&lt;/a&gt;
</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Alexandre,<br />
As Lazarus points out, the answer is almost always money. The sad thing is that SANS/GIAC had a certification that required a written practical exam. Unfortunately, they <a href="http://www.giac.org/practicals/termination.php" rel="nofollow">got rid of that requirement</a>, austensibly for flexibility, but I suspect people were complaining that it was too hard given the 80% failure rate, GIAC was seeing. <a href="http://www.securityfocus.com/columnists/311" rel="nofollow">Don Parker</a> and <a href="http://taosecurity.blogspot.com/2005/03/sans-ends-practical-requirement-for.html" rel="nofollow">Richard Bejtlich</a> in particular were unamused at this change. See <a href="http://certcities.com/editorial/news/story.asp?EditorialsID=809&#038;page=2" rel="nofollow">CertCities</a> for their interview with the Peter Northcutt for the marketing aspects. Speaking of marketing, for a good laugh read GIAC&#8217;s <a href="http://www.giac.org/certified/certmatters/" rel="nofollow">Does Certification Matter?</a></p>
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		<title>By: Lazarus Long</title>
		<link>http://emergentchaos.com/archives/2006/10/certification-shmertification.html/comment-page-1#comment-2749</link>
		<dc:creator>Lazarus Long</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 13 Oct 2006 19:19:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://emergentchaos.com/?p=2006#comment-2749</guid>
		<description>Whenever a question starts with &quot;why don&#039;t they,&quot; the answer is almost always money.
</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Whenever a question starts with &#8220;why don&#8217;t they,&#8221; the answer is almost always money.</p>
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		<title>By: Alexandre Carmel-Veilleux</title>
		<link>http://emergentchaos.com/archives/2006/10/certification-shmertification.html/comment-page-1#comment-2748</link>
		<dc:creator>Alexandre Carmel-Veilleux</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 13 Oct 2006 18:42:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://emergentchaos.com/?p=2006#comment-2748</guid>
		<description>With few exceptions (Cisco&#039;s CCIE comes to mind) I don&#039;t get impressed much by certifications. Take any three serious computer geeks and combined I&#039;m convince they can pass just about any multiple choice exams you throw at them in most of these certifications. Some are better, but they quickly devolve to cram sessions and postnominials on business cards.
Why don&#039;t more certifications take the practical approach and add lab components where relevant to their market? Either that or an open ended thesis-and-defence if hands-on labs are not relevant (e.g.: CISSP or any other industry-wide cert.) Of course, it&#039;s quite a bit more work scoring these then a multiple choice exam.
</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>With few exceptions (Cisco&#8217;s CCIE comes to mind) I don&#8217;t get impressed much by certifications. Take any three serious computer geeks and combined I&#8217;m convince they can pass just about any multiple choice exams you throw at them in most of these certifications. Some are better, but they quickly devolve to cram sessions and postnominials on business cards.<br />
Why don&#8217;t more certifications take the practical approach and add lab components where relevant to their market? Either that or an open ended thesis-and-defence if hands-on labs are not relevant (e.g.: CISSP or any other industry-wide cert.) Of course, it&#8217;s quite a bit more work scoring these then a multiple choice exam.</p>
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		<title>By: Anonymous</title>
		<link>http://emergentchaos.com/archives/2006/10/certification-shmertification.html/comment-page-1#comment-2747</link>
		<dc:creator>Anonymous</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 13 Oct 2006 13:03:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://emergentchaos.com/?p=2006#comment-2747</guid>
		<description>Nah, it doesn&#039;t really, I just thought it would be funny to say.
</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Nah, it doesn&#8217;t really, I just thought it would be funny to say.</p>
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		<title>By: Adam</title>
		<link>http://emergentchaos.com/archives/2006/10/certification-shmertification.html/comment-page-1#comment-2746</link>
		<dc:creator>Adam</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 12 Oct 2006 23:11:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://emergentchaos.com/?p=2006#comment-2746</guid>
		<description>I&#039;m fucking mortified.  We get hits for CISSP?
</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;m fucking mortified.  We get hits for CISSP?</p>
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		<title>By: Anonymous</title>
		<link>http://emergentchaos.com/archives/2006/10/certification-shmertification.html/comment-page-1#comment-2745</link>
		<dc:creator>Anonymous</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 12 Oct 2006 19:38:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://emergentchaos.com/?p=2006#comment-2745</guid>
		<description>Maybe it helps drive traffic to your blog.  I did a search for CISSP and your site popped up.
</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Maybe it helps drive traffic to your blog.  I did a search for CISSP and your site popped up.</p>
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		<title>By: sama</title>
		<link>http://emergentchaos.com/archives/2006/10/certification-shmertification.html/comment-page-1#comment-2744</link>
		<dc:creator>sama</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 12 Oct 2006 15:07:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://emergentchaos.com/?p=2006#comment-2744</guid>
		<description>Certifications generally show that you memorized well for an exam.  I suppose that&#039;s worth something, but it sure doesn&#039;t mean you know what you&#039;re doing.  There are plenty of lousy lawyers and CPA&#039;s whose existence is proof of that, never mind IT certifications.
</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Certifications generally show that you memorized well for an exam.  I suppose that&#8217;s worth something, but it sure doesn&#8217;t mean you know what you&#8217;re doing.  There are plenty of lousy lawyers and CPA&#8217;s whose existence is proof of that, never mind IT certifications.</p>
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