Comments on: Kindle Brouhaha Isn’t About DRM

By: Chris R

Chris R — Mon, 20 Jul 2009 14:16:59 +0000

I wonder what else they can do with your Kindle. Maybe I am just being paranoid, but the thought of Amazon gaining access to my personal property and controlling it is very unsettling.

By: Adam

Adam — Sun, 19 Jul 2009 13:09:47 +0000

Nicko, It's clear that to many Kindle licensees that the Kindle is more than 'simply a browser for your Kindle bookshelf that happens to have a large cache to make it work better when off line.' I've purchased (licensed?) books for mine from the lovely Baen books. They sell at https://www.webscription.net/. I've imported Gutenberg books myself, and gotten many from http://manybooks.net/ who convert them from txt to azw for you. As to Gmail, I think that the fact that money changes hands creates a clear difference. I think Amazon exacerbates this with buttons labeled things like "buy it now with one click" (See here for example.) If I buy something, the seller can't regret it and reverse it without negotiation and a meeting of the minds. You're right, we need to update the doctrines of sale to reflect digital goods and evils.

By: Nicko

Nicko — Sun, 19 Jul 2009 12:23:41 +0000

One can argue that the Kindle device (or the Kindle iPhone app) is simply a browser for your Kindle bookshelf that happens to have a large cache to make it work better when off line. If you check out what Jeff Bezos has been saying all along about the Kindle it is clear that he views it this way; their business model is in the books not the device. Having said that, customers relate much more to the tangible device than to the intangible content and feel that purchasing a ‘book’ for their Kindle should be more akin to buying a physical book.
There has been much emotive language in the reports on this incident with people saying that “Amazon reached in and took my book”. The reality is that the browser device went on line to performe a synchronisation operation and the book was no longer on the shelf, so the cache was updated to reflect this. While the effect is the same, the mechanics demonstrate that Mordaxus is right; this is no different to running GMail or other Google Apps in their off-line mode and the next time you go online you find that Google has deleted your email or documents.
I think that the problem being discussed here includes not just the blurring of the distinction between devices and networks but between content and the embodiment of that content. The Kindle is your device but it is also a part of Amazon’s network. You purchase a device and then you purchase licenses to copy books from Amazon’s servers onto a number of devices. It’s hard for both users and legislators to get their heads around this model. I personally would like to see legislation to update the doctrine of First Sale, not just to clarify the resale rights on software that gets copied from read-only discs into memory but also to cover intangible downloads. Of course the problems with doing that are probably the topic of a whole other thread!

By: fishbane

fishbane — Sun, 19 Jul 2009 08:12:33 +0000

As Dave notes, removing the data from a device you own and removing it from the “cloud” (I personally hate that term) are very different things. I realize you want to concentrate on that aspect, but don’t lose track of the fact that the other is there, and to many of us more important. Certainly, it is trendy to consider things like the kindle simply an endpoint in the whispy froth of our data sea, or whatever, but the disconnect between physical ownership of a device to render licensed data that one pays for is the problem here, and it rightly makes many people upset that things like the First Sale doctrine goes away in our brave new world, and this doesn’t even get to details like the kid who lost his working notes when his copy of the book was deleted (obviously a technical side effect, but a very real problem – whatever one thinks of Amazon repossessing the books, they destroyed a user’s data in the process).
Similarly, I believe you would agree that a “cloud” backup service failing, thus you losing access to backed up files, is different than that service removing a file from your machine.

By: The Dave

The Dave — Sun, 19 Jul 2009 02:44:28 +0000

This is absolutely not just a “cloud” computing issue.
The removed books weren’t just deleted from the cloud, they were deleted from end user’s devices, which is clearly a DRM issue.
DRM isn’t about encryption, it’s about digital rights *management*, which in this case is just a case of Amazon abusing it’s power over end user’s purchased hardware and product — This is analogous to your hardware store keeping copies of keys after you buy locks there, then walking in and removing that fridge you just bought.